Podcast: Disability History Month

Posted on November 30, 2022   by Charlotte Holtum

In this special episode of Microbe Talk for Disability History Month, Charlie talks to Kirsty Jones about her experience of accessibility in labs.

Music: Blue Dot Sessions 'The Corner Office'

 

 

Transcript:

Charlie
Hello. You're listening to Microbe Talk, the podcast from the Microbiology Society. I'm Charlie and this episode is a special one for Disability History Month. Today's episode is looking at accessibility in science. For this episode, I traveled to Staffordshire University to meet Kirsty Jones to talk about her experience. I started by meeting Kirsty in a room by her office to learn more about her personal experience and accessibility requirements.

Kirsty
So I’m Kirsty I’m a third year PhD student here at Staffordshire University, and I'm currently investigating the roles of selective proteases within the yeast stress and programed cell death response. My disabilities are physically, I've got cerebral palsy, which means that I have reduced dexterity down the right side of my body. And I'm also dyslexic and I have ADD.

Charlie
Can we talk about what ADD is, just in case people don't know.

Kirsty
So ADD is attention deficit disorder. So essentially ADHD without the hyperactivity.

Charlie
You were saying when we were talking earlier, you find it sometimes hard to keep something in your mind?

Kirsty
Yeah. How I manage my ADD in the lab is that I have to have things written down step by step so that I don't get lost within certain experimental processes. Sort of limiting the sort of limiting the distraction almost. And I have to be sort of quite strict with setting deadlines because with PhD work you don't tend to have as many deadlines.

So I have to sort of set myself micro deadlines to try and keep my focus a little bit more.

Charlie
That makes sense.

Kirsty
And which sort of plays into the cerebral palsy part because as being a scientist with a reduced dexterity, I've kind of have to sort of problem solve on a personal level, in terms of how to get around actually physically doing the experiments and not just the experiments themselves. So I have to sort of put in a little bit more effort on placements of different chemicals or equipment so that I can get to whatever quite easily and I’m not sort of held up and essentially stuck.

Kirsty
I tend to be a lot more sort of reliant on test tube racks as well because my reduced usage of my hands.

Charlie
Right. Okay. Yeah. So maybe we could talk about that when we go to the lab. So, do you mean with the placement of stuff do you mean that before you get started, you have to make sure you put everything in a place?

Kirsty
Yeah. It has to be kind of systemically set up and I've got I've almost got to run through it in my head first and think about how I'm going to handle and certain pieces of equipment.

Charlie
Would it be helpful to know more people who are scientists who have a form of disability?

Kirsty
I think it would, especially from lower levels of education, when people start considering what they actually want to do as a career sometimes without having that representation like is that possible? I met with a couple of individuals kind of recently and we had a lot of ‘me too’ moments and that sort of eliminates some of the sort of isolation that you get, which you would get for like just as a general PhD student, but with someone with sort of any underlying conditions or chronic illness, that's that sort of added isolation on top I think.

And so it was nice to sort of talk to other individuals and go, oh yeah, of the I've got to so-and-so, I've done this. Have you tried this? And it was it was really nice to have a chat.

Charlie
Do you feel happy to share any of the things from that?

Kirsty
Well, first and foremost the... easiest thing that I can remember is just simply putting gloves on, which is kind of fundamental in working in the lab and so because of, of limited range of movement in my right hand, I find it really hard to put gloves on sometimes. And sometimes they don't always want to stay exactly where they would like, because I have to have like a size a little bit bigger just to just to get it on and off because of the position of my hands.

But, and yeah, it's just really sort of little things like that to start off with that probably people wouldn't even consider. I would say to someone, thinking about their accessibility needs within the lab and every individual with either a disability or chronic illness is that, in fact an individual. And we all experience things in different ways and it's just getting an understanding of what works best for you in the lab.

And, um, I find it best sort of like open communication. And there would be some things that haven’t been considered before that sometimes don’t arise until, until that moment. If you don't sort of like voice your needs, people probably won't know that that might be an issue if you've got the idea in your head that you want to work in the lab.

And you feel like there’s certain barriers in place, going back to that sort of open communication will help you overcome those barriers. And you know there is a place for people with disabilities and chronic illnesses in the lab.

Charlie
To show me what her working day looks like. Kirsty took me to a couple of the labs she works in. Here we were joined by Dr. Arthur Hosie

Arthur
I’m Dr Arthur Hosie, I’m Course Director of biological sciences here at Staffordshire University. But I'm a microbiologist I did my first degree in microbiology and have been a microbiology researcher and teaching ever since.

Charlie
So we’re just stood in a teaching lab at the moment, actually we’re sat in a teaching lab at the moment. And you just pointed out to me one thing that Staffordshire University has incorporated into your teaching labs. Could you explain what that is?

Arthur
Yeah, of course. We've got quite diverse students as most universities do have, and we've got to consider making sure that all teaching is accessible to all students. So what you've just highlighted is the fact that all labs, all the teaching labs have benches that can actually be raised or lowered. That's particularly important. We have had students and still have students that use wheelchairs.

So therefore the benches can be raised or lowered to exact height to make sure that the students can access their teaching. And we also have to consider lots of other diverse aspects as well. I mean, all the labs have been equipped with hearing loops. Sometimes, however, the labs, even though we've gone over way to design the labs for access and and to make sure that teaching is accessible to all.

So sometimes small things get in the way. Um, but fortunately the students raise these things and we can respond.

Charlie
That's kind of what you were saying, Kirsty, wasn't it, about the communication and you know how individual these things are.

Kirsty
Disability is such an umbrella term that people have different conditions. It is a very broad spectrum of individuals that we’re trying to be more accessible in the lab. for

Charlie
Just on that, do you have any advice to someone working in your position at other universities who may not have had such experience in these things? What would you say to someone in your position?

Arthur
There will be people in all universities that have that experience. And so actually being able to identify who's the go to person, to identify the needs. So it's just about being aware and making sure that you don't assume anything. And as I said, some of these disabilities are hidden and we have to actually treat every student as an individual, but be aware that sometimes they mean that just small adjustments because education should be accessible to all.

Charlie
We moved from that teaching lab to another one, and in this one Kirsty has work set up in a corner. So we just stood in the lab that Kirsty normally works in and we're not going to go through the experiments today. But as you're sat here, Kirsty, we were talking about some things that you have to think about.

Could you talk us through what was the experiment you're going to talk us through? A growth experiment? Can you talk us through that and what you'd think about?

Kirsty
I sort of do an inoculation in universals and even just sort of the placement of how I open the universal and, you know, where to put the lid. And essentially because it's microbiology, you just keep it sort of bare in mind to keep it aseptic as well as working around my physical differences in the experiment. So it's just finding the right places that are not too far away to stretch or, you know, not too far away from the Bunsen and then all these things to consider. Yeah. So sometimes I struggle to open certain Durans and it's just finding the placements, as I've mentioned and I often I use test tube racks to put like and then like microfuge tubes and, and so that I've got a hand to pipette the yeast from one tube to another and it's, it's just placements really. So it doesn't also compromise, you know, the outcome of the experiment as well.

Charlie
Yeah, makes sense but there's nothing here that's formally adapted or anything is there?

Kirsty
No. Currently I just use standard pipettes so possibly looked in into using an automatic pipette. But it's just working my way through the processes. And as I say, sometimes I don't know myself what is needed until I get to that point.

Charlie
So yes.

Kirsty
And yeah, it's a learning curve.

Charlie
I actually stopped recording at this point. But Dr. Hosie then made a comment about the importance for collaboration of universities and societies in the future of accessible science. So I turned the mic back on to catch what he'd said there.

Arthur
Yeah, I was just talking about a meeting that I was in yesterday. And of course the university's developing access and participation plans. I was discussing with our Associate Dean student about how important it was that we actually worked alongside societies such as the Microbiology Society and actually made our students aware of the good work that societies are doing. I do know that the Microbiology Society has done a lot for inclusion, not just about gender equality, but also disability equality and Black History Month, for example.

And I think it's important that we don't work in isolation as universities work with professional societies such as our microbiology society. They actually get alongside to make sure that we're actually making sure that everything's accessible for all of us.

Charlie
Is there anything, because we were talking about that power of a network, and I know that you said that you actually don't feel like you've got one of other scientists in your position. Do you think that there's more that places like the Microbiology Society could be doing with that stuff?

Kirsty
Potentially we could look at organising sessions to bring awareness. And that's why I kind of agreed to do this podcast because I don't think this sort of side has that much visibility when it comes to working in the labs. And, and, and so I, I just wanted to bring it to people's attention and yeah, and regardless of whether it's out of my comfort zone or not, it's, I just, I just thought it was important to show from a different perspective from someone that has a disability.

Charlie
Thank you for listening to this episode of Microbe Talk. If you have any feedback or you'd like to share your story, please do get in touch. If you'd like to appear on a future episode of Microbe Talk, please also get in touch via our website.